Episode 14 - Joseph Jones
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The Deets
  Bosco Legal Services, Inc.
  (877) 353-8281
   joe@boscolegal.org
  4651 Brookhollow Cir., Suite C
Riverside, CA 92509
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Show Notes
Mighty Mike: What's up Server Nation, my name is Michael Reid, the podcaster, where you are listening to processor Dave. On this podcast we interview the top legal support professionals, and get the tips, tools, and tactics that they use to get the job done, and build a successful company. I'm a big fan of story telling, and I'm excited about today's guest. Before we get started, let's give a big shout out to my new sponsors Sir Manager. They have a special gift for all of my listeners at the end of today's episode.

Mighty Mike: Server Nation, welcome to Process Server Daily! Our guest today has worked at every position in his company. Bosco Legal Services Incorporated. He started at the very bottom sweeping the parking lots, and taking out the trash. He is now the vice president, and is well known in California for being a social media cyber investigation expert. Joseph Jones welcome to the show!

Joseph: Hey thanks for having me.

Mighty Mike: Joe tell us a little bit about yourself, and how you got started in this industry?

Joseph: It's a family company. My dad was a private investigator, started out of our kitchen when I was a couple of years old. We had grown our business. We now have about 50 employees. We've got a couple offices throughout Southern California. Like you said, I literally started at the very bottom when I was a kid, and have really learned every piece of what we do, and been able to develop some pretty cool stuff.

Mighty Mike: That's really cool. Were you one of the kids that went to the courthouse by yourself and filed papers?

Joseph: Oh yeah, yep definitely. When I was in college I'd be down there at the courthouse doing my homework, while I'm waiting to get called at the window. Interestingly enough I didn't originally plan on sticking with the family company. I was going to become a social worker after I finished college, but some opportunities opened up. Some things changed. I decided to get married, and start having a bunch of kids, and I figured social work wouldn't really foot the bill. I stuck with it, and have been able to be to be part of some pretty expansive growth.

Mighty Mike: It's funny that in this industry, so many people end up in this industry, and not really planned a way, but it ended up being such a great turnout for them. Sounds like it worked out for you.

Joseph: Yeah, yeah absolutely, it's been a huge blessing.

Mighty Mike: Joseph there's a reason you're on my show. You have a lot going on right on now, full of experiences. But first tell me about your worst experience working in the field?

Joseph: I'll say this. It's very rare that I go out in the field anymore. Now I do a lot of desktop investigation. I also just kind of do a lot of administration within our company. But when we're talking about field stuff, and I never had anything real terrible happen, but I was doing surveillance one day. It was kind of crappy surveillance, like most surveillance are. Just sitting in the car for hours on end, waiting for something to happen. Didn't really have any activity. The next morning we had another one of my guys out there.

Joseph: The guy we conducting surveillance came running after him with a machete. Yeah, and it was kind of crazy. He had like one of his friends block off the street with his car, and he comes running out after him. It got pretty hairy. I wasn't there for that, but that got pretty interesting.

Mighty Mike: That's crazy, and it's funny, because when we start ... When we go from stop serving, to just going into the office and kind of managing everything. It's funny the mindset shift when you start doing more office stuff. You still remember when you were out there serving, and you still remember the different challenges that were out there. I know I still serve. One of the reasons is, because I can't find anybody to serve 30, 40 papers in a night.

Joseph: Sure.

Mighty Mike: I guess the only way I could do that is if I was to hire somebody full time, and to train them, go out with me every day. Is that what you guys kind of have done?

Joseph: Yeah, so we do the best that we can to have all of our people cross trained. I want my office staff to know what it's like in the field, and I want my field staff to know what it's like in the office, because I think when they understand the whole picture, they can do a better job.

Mighty Mike: That's so true, because when you go out there in the field, you want to get to the next servant. You might not put all the diligence the way you were supposed to, or maybe write down all the license plates. Maybe you didn't put a description of somebody. You get back, and if you've ever walked in the office, you know that's crazy. You got to pick up the phone and call me. What did this person look like? If they're serving 30, or 40 papers a day, they may not remember.

Joseph: Yeah, no absolutely. We just hosted a Cal's Pro continuing education thing at our office a week, or two ago. I had 10 of my office people here. Most of them are not going to be out serving papers probably ever, but I want them to know what the field guys go through, and to get that training.

Mighty Mike: That's awesome. What I take most from your story is cross training. As your company grows you got to cross train people, so they understand the different parts, and it can be a better working team.

Joseph: Yup.

Mighty Mike: What do you want to Server Nation to get most from your work experience, and from your experience growing your company?

Joseph: Yeah, so I mean vigilance is important. Especially when you're out there in the field. You got to keep your eyes open, keep your head on a swivel. Especially since I know a lot of your viewers are process servers. A for safety, but B just generally speaking, taking really good notes. It helps so much getting plate numbers. Knowing if people are coming, and going from the house. They're tagging the doors. Things like that really help you be more efficient, and a more valuable asset to your company.

Mighty Mike: That's awesome. Those are some major value bombs as you people grow ... It's cool, because you see a company go from like a one man show, and then he goes to like a one man show who has helps. Then he goes from that to then, okay now I need to hire people, employees. There could be a scale. I'm writing a book on process serving, basic training. I'm kind of putting all these elements in there. Depending on your level will depend on where you're going to fall within that realm. It's really cool to hear you talk about the cross training and stuff.

Joseph: Right, and I guess one more thing that I'll piggy back on there. Again I've been doing this since I was a kid, I've seen a lot of stuff. One of the challenges I see for companies who are trying to grow. They start as the one man, and are trying to grow like you're talking about. You've got to adjust everything as you're growing, especially your pricing. As a one man show, you probably can charge less than the bigger guys, and still make as much money, but as you're growing your overhead grows. If you're not increasing your rates ... Certainly you're adding more value to your clients, you can justify higher rates, but if you try and keep those low rates, you're going to be working a lot more, and you're going to be making less money.

Mighty Mike: That's true, that's true. I didn't know how ... When I first started I was getting $25 a serve, and I didn't know how anybody could do it, and I was getting it from an affiliate. I wanted to raise my prices on here, and she goes, "You know I don't go serving. I just give all my servers away, and so I need half." But I was like, "But she's not really doing any of the work." Once I started my own business, doing my own marketing I was like, "Wow I got to pay phones. I got to pay for rent, PGE, someone to answer the phones if I'm not going to be doing it. Yeah it's crazy. You get a lot, a lot of bills, a lot of expenses.

Mighty Mike: That's awesome Joe. Tell me about your greatest experience working in the field?

Joseph: I'm going to share with you an experience, it actually wasn't in the field. I mean I've had some good ones. There's always fun stories, but it was actually a cyber investigation that I worked. It was a fraud case, and there's several levels to the fraud that we were looking at. Essentially the case was ... It was back east, and it's all public record now, so I can talk about it. There was a building that was insured as a family style restaurant. The building burned down, a couple million dollar loss for the insurance company. The insurance company, they thought something smelled funny about the claim in general.

Joseph: They brought us on to look at several different things. The first was going to be was this arson initiated by a competitor? Was it initiated by the owner of the building? How did it come about? Then B, was the facility actually a restaurant, because when they went in, the inspection after it had burned down, there were several things that made them think hey maybe this wasn't a restaurant. We did our investigation. We were able to come up with a significant amount of evidence, indicating that it was one of the owners of the company that had started the fire.

Joseph: We weren't able to prove that, because that end really fell on the local Fire Marshall, and Sheriff's Department, because they're the ones who have access to the facilities to do all that kind of stuff. We found a lot of evidence to support that. What was really interesting is we found this restaurant wasn't actually a restaurant. It was a strip club, which when you're talking about insurance coverage, they're two entirely different risks. Where one did ... Our insurance company, they don't insure strip clubs, because they're way to big of a risk. A lot of stabbings, a lot of shootings. A lot of competitors trying to run the place out.

Joseph: We were able to via social media, even though a lot of accounts .... They had deleted most of their accounts. We were able to establish through patrons to the establishment that it was in fact a strip club. We found lots of good stuff, and it was really interesting, but the one piece of evidence that just blew everybody away. It's the kind of thing you blow up, and put in front of a jury if they have the stomach to handle it. We found a photo that a patron had taken inside the establishment of a stripper on a stripper pole with a flame thrower, blowing flames out all over the stip club ...

Joseph: That's the kind of evidence that is like ... A lot of the stuff we find ... We can't write this stuff. It's just too good most of the time, kind of unbelievable unless you're looking at it.

Mighty Mike: Wow that is so cool. Just so Server Nation knows, you're saying that you worked for an insurance company, where they paid you to do an investigation, and try to figure out if there was any fraud going on, and this is the kind of stuff that you were uncovering?

Joseph: Yup.

Mighty Mike: Wow, that is crazy. So a flame thrower.

Joseph: Yup.

Mighty Mike: I doubt they were coded for that.

Joseph: Yeah, yeah, no they weren't. Part of our investigation found that the city had been trying to shut them down for like six months. That's one of the reasons the fire happened shortly after they had been shut down. They're trying to get the insurance money, because the city is getting so much push back, that they're not able to operate. They figured, hey why don't we torch our place, and get a little insurance money out of it.

Mighty Mike: That is an awesome experience.

Joseph: Yeah it was fun. I remember man when I shot that over to the client. I'm like, "You are never going to believe what we just found."

Mighty Mike: That is awesome. Joseph, tell me what are you working on right now that has you most fired up? Most excited?

Joseph: All right. We do social media investigations. We do them in a way that's very, very unique. We're not just looking for their public profile. We're not just looking for sending links, or a quick report over to a client, so they can review someone's social media. We are going through, and we are finding the individual, their friends, their family. We're legally find ways to penetrate privacy settings to find hidden content, and using that as primary evidence in case ... Everybody is using social media to assist their investigations now. If you're not you're living 20 years ...

Joseph: Your investigations now, if you're not, you're living 20 years ago.

Joseph: But, we're really doing this thorough dive and then, forensic are preserving it and using it for the attorney's to use in their case-in-chief as they're prosecuting their cases and it's been a game changer. Over the last five years, we've had like 700% growth within our investigations division and it's done phenomenal things for our company.

Mighty Mike: I've got to tell you that's something definitely worth being excited about.

Joseph: Yeah and the next thing that we're looking at, and we've already started and it's come by way of requests from clients is, we're getting also into jury consulting and using social media to help the attorney's pick the jurors that they want, keep track of them during trial and, some other jury consulting type stuff. Which that's also really cutting edge, it's really exciting.

Mighty Mike: So, let me see if I understand this. So, back in the day attorney's would just be able to like interview them and decide, okay, we want you, we don't want you. We want you, we don't want you. So, you're saying that you will say, okay, you get the list of jurors and then, you'll go investigate each of them on social media and then, you'll also monitor them going forward so you know if they're talking about the case online?

Joseph: Right, sure. And, you know, yes. And that's still the main way that it's done, right. It's called [inaudible 00:13:25] you've got a couple of hours where you've got the attorneys are interviewing all the prospective jurors to pick which one they want and, there's certain questions that they'll ask them that jurors may or may not be truthful with their answers and, that there's certain questions that the attorney's can't ask or don't have the time to ask because it's a condensed timeframe.

Joseph: But, there's some things like, we're working on one right now, trial starts on Thursday where you've got, our client is a defendant, there's also another public agency that's a defendant and so we're interested in finding out if the prospective jurors, how they feel about the government. Since the government is involved in this case, we're interested to know, hey, are they pro government, are they anti government? Because that's going to affect how they view the case, right? Because they're going to be really interested to, you know, are they going to try stick it to big brother? Write some big verdict because they've got a bone to pick with ...

Mighty Mike: The libertarian or somebody.

Joseph: Yeah.

Mighty Mike: Okay.

Joseph: And so we're able to look at all those things.

Mighty Mike: That's really cool. And so, this next part here is an addition to the show, it's called, The Server Nation Questionnaire. So, for those of you that don't know, you can go on my website, processserverdaily.com/podcast and you can ask a question of my guest and, we can play your video clip right here in this episode so that my guest can answer it for you.

Mighty Mike: Today's question, Joseph is, what makes your company different from the others in your area?

Joseph: So, it almost depends on what aspect of our business you're looking at. You know, specifically social media investigations, the difference between us and the next guy is really significant because of the level of depth that we're doing our investigation.

Joseph: There is, we're doing nation-wide but let's just stick with California since that's a lot of companies that watch your stuff. There's probably three, maybe five companies in California and individuals who do the type of investigation that we do at the level we do it. And, so the level of expertise, as far as social media investigations goes, that's one of the things that really separates us.

Joseph: And when we're talking about process serving, I think one of the things that makes us different is the approach that we've been taking to the process serving end of our business. For years we were going for volume, trying to get as much work as we can, trying to be as busy as we can. Over the last several years we've really changed that model because it's not successful, right? I mean, you can get a lot of work but that doesn't mean you're being profitable.

Joseph: So we've really started cutting out a lot of clients, ones who were paying their bills even because we established, hey, here's how much money we need to make, here's the type of company that we want to be, here's the type of employees we have, here's the type of clients we want to have. And when we changed all that, it was for sure scary at first, I'd say, we're cutting out these clients but it's turned out to be a wonderful thing for us and it's enabled us to bring on better staff, people who are more experienced, be able to pay our people better, give them solid benefits.

Joseph: And so, you know, for us that's been kind of one of the differences internally and then it reflects on our work product, right? So when our clients are dealing with people who know what the heck they're talking about, they're dealing with people who are three steps ahead of them in solving their problems. Whereas before, years ago, there was a couple of us in the office who could do that but, not everybody because we had to bring on new less experienced people because of the pay rate. So we've been able to kind of overcome that and it's been phenomenal for our company.
 
Mighty Mike: This is awesome, you are dropping some major value bombs on us today. I got to tell you because I'm in the level right now where I'm getting ready to do that and we're talking about rates and how we can scale and kind of switch things up, go from affiliates to mainly attorneys or even some of these collection agencies.

Mighty Mike: So, it's really cool, I know The Server Nation is going to get a lot out of this episode. On The Server Nation, Joseph has been dropping some major value bombs on us today but prepare yourself because we're headed into the rapid fire round, right after a word from our sponsors.

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Mighty Mike: Welcome back to the show. Joseph, are you ready for the rapid fire round?

Joseph: Let's do it.

Mighty Mike: What is your favorite skip trace tactic? And I know this is going to be deep.

Joseph: Yeah so, and it may not be what you're expecting, right? So we do where we're taking in 10 skip traces a day, we do a ton of skip tracing and, one of my favorite tactics is, after we've exhausted all of the normal stuff, you know, after you've done your databases, your pre-texting, your utilities, if we're still not able to find them, usually what I'll do is I'll call the person directly.

Joseph: Because, at this point, I've already exhausted my clients budget, right? The initial budget. And so I'll call the person, I'll say, listen, I'm a private investigator, I've been tasked to find you to get you served with these documents. I'm good at what I do, I'm going to find you but, I don't want to make this difficult for you, I don't want to jump out of the bushes at you at 2:00AM, I don't want to scare your kids, why don't you just agree to accept service and we'll do it professionally?

Joseph: And then, I find like honestly 50 to 75% of the time, after I had that conversation with them, they'll be like, all right, let's do it.
 
Joseph: And so I never lead with it because you have the potential of burning yourself but, I throw that out there as kind of a last ditch effort for the basic methods so that way I can gage their response. Because at that point, it's not really shooting yourself in the foot because you've already tried.

Joseph: So then if they agree, great. We go, we get it done. If they don't agree, now I can go back to the client and I can say, listen, we've done all of this stuff, we even tried this it didn't work, now I need you to give me a budget to do a real investigation on this person. You know, take it past the initial couple hundred bucks for a skip trace.

Joseph: And then, usually, that gets the attorney sucked in because they kind of like the story of it, right? Oh, this person has now challenged us, they're saying we can't do it and then, it's fun for me, it's kind of a challenge. Like, all right, they're already good at hiding because I haven't been able to find them using our normal 20 average skip tracing techniques, now I get to put on the thinking cap and go get them and I have budget to get it done so it's not coming out of my pocket, I'm getting paid for the good work that I'm going to do.

Mighty Mike: That's kind of like pretext, too, except for you're being completely honest with them, you're just telling them like, this is what I got. I've had one where this lady kept running in the house whenever I'd try to serve her and I couldn't get close enough to communicate with her so, I found out that her kid went to school at this local school and so, I went to the piano recital, sat next to them and served here right there at the piano recital.

Mighty Mike: I mean, this is a reality that could happen, why go through that when you can just accept service?

Joseph: Right. Absolutely and, you know, we'll use pre-texting, as well, for sure and that's usually, we'll usually have to have somebody different that did the pre-text make the follow up call because you don't want mess with that.

Joseph: And again, nobody likes getting served. But, it's a reality, the stuffs there that has to be dealt with. I prefer before we start making their life miserable and hey, I'm, especially after we've had that conversation, we'll go to a funeral man, we will serve them at their mothers funeral if we have to.

Joseph: But, we don't like to take it there if we don't have to.

Mighty Mike: Right, definitely.

Mighty Mike: What's your favorite tool for defense?

Joseph: So I will, I'm going to put a couple caveats before this. My process servers, I do not allow to carry any kind of weapon. I think it can be super problematic, I think a lot of people when they're carrying some kind of weapon, it emboldens them to do things that they wouldn't otherwise do and, I think that's really problematic.

Joseph: I think as a process server industry as a whole, I think our greatest defense weapon is our words, you know, being able to de-escalate situations. So I'll start with that.

Joseph: I am licensed to carry, I carry a .45 Kimber and I pray that the situation will never come where I might have to use it but certainly, that's something available to me in the worst circumstances.

Joseph: I also have a taser that I carry. It's an X2, it's pretty fun and I've never had to use it on somebody who wasn't willing but I, my family have six kids and then baby sister. My baby sister, a couple of years ago decided she was going to bring her boyfriend home to meet the family, they were talking about getting married. Long story short, he met the business end of my taser and, I found out it does work quite well and turns out he's a really good guy, he actually works for us now, he does some [inaudible 00:23:45] for us.

Joseph: But, yeah, that's kind of my thoughts on it.

Joseph: But truly though, especially in the process serving situation, it's very, very rare, one out of a million times that you're going to need some kind of defense other than your words.

Joseph: You know, some kind of defense other than your words. I found de-escalation is always the best way to go.

Mighty Mike: That's good. That's good stuff. I agree wholeheartedly about that. What is the greatest advice you've ever received?

Joseph: Yeah, that's a tough one. You know, I've been blessed to grow up in the company with my dad and my oldest brother, who I received a lot of training from them both, kind of in conversations and just in watching them.

Joseph: But I would say ... So, it's probably never said to me, but it's one of the things that I've observed and we've developed as a company over the last 10 years, is know your value. Right? You know, if you undervalue what you're doing, everybody else around you is going to undervalue you as well.

Joseph: You know, when people come to me, they come to me because they know that I'm going to be able to help them with their situation, and they're willing to pay good money for that help. You know, if I'm trying to beat the next guy's price by, you know, 5 bucks, 20 bucks, 100 bucks, that's going to devalue what I do because my value goes much further beyond the money that I'm getting paid.

Joseph: And that's, I think, one of the major challenges I've seen within the process serving industry, is so many people become price-centered. You know, they think, "Hey, I've got to be cheaper than the next guy." Hey, man. This isn't retail. Right? This isn't Walmart, where everybody's going to try and save two bucks.
Joseph: I mean, certainly there's law firms out there that are like that, but as more people move away from that model, they're going to ... the industry is going to grow as a whole.

Mighty Mike: Well, I'm glad you brought that up. I always beat a dead horse about brand, brand versus commodity, and if all you're doing is thinking about ... Steve Jobs, I think it was Steve Jobs, was talking about Nike. Do you want to be the Nike, where you're honoring great athletes and people look up to you, or do you want to be the guy that says, "Hey, we're the cheapest price and we can get it done the fastest."

Mighty Mike: You know? So, I'm really glad you brought that up. We can become a commodity very easily if we're not careful, so you've got to step out. And I have no doubt that your company has stepped out in that way, with the social media, with the investigation, with some of the stuff that Trent was telling me about what you're doing with Serve Manager and stuff. And we'll get into that. But what I take from that is, like you said, know your value. That's where it starts. It's the foundation. Build a brand and work up from there. Good stuff.

Mighty Mike: Joseph, what would you do if you woke up tomorrow with all the same skills and knowledge, but you didn't know anybody and only had $100.00, a Smartphone, and a car. What would you do to re-grow your business?

Joseph: We're very growth-minded as a company. You know, we're doing a lot of growing, so I think about these things pretty often. You know? All right, what would I do if I went to a different state and decided to grow? You know, some other places that might be kind of fun to work.

Joseph: You know, it's really about networking, right? I would go, and I would find a law firm who had need of what I can do. And I'd just say, "Hey." And this is an interesting tie-in and might seem to conflict with what I previously said, but I'd try and get in the door. If they wouldn't let me in the door, if they didn't have any cases, they had too many concerns, I'd say, "Hey. Let me do a case for you for free. I'm so confident that what I'm going to bring to the table is better than what you're doing right now, that I'll invest 20 hours a week of my time to help show you how valuable it can be." I'd go, I'd do the case, they'd be amazed, and then I'd come on and do all their paying stuff at good rates.

Mighty Mike: That's awesome. So, what would you do, in detail? So, you're saying you would go into the office and, you'd just drive in there and you'd be ... How many offices would you hit? How would you do it?

Joseph: Yeah. So, I mean, I think ... So, what I'd do ... So, for example, let's say we've got a big law firm that I'm trying to, I'm going to get my foot in the door. I'd go in, I'd find a way to talk with whoever the partner is, whoever the decision-maker is. If I can't get him right then when I walk in, I'm going to follow-up by email, I'm going to follow him on LinkedIn. I'm going to figure out where they go to church. I'm going to show up and sit in the pew next to him.

Joseph: I'm going to figure out who the decision-maker is and what I can do to establish a relationship with him. And then, I'm going to pitch to him, "Hey, here's what I can do. You know, social media, here's how it's going to affect your case, here's how it's going to help you."

Joseph: Oftentimes, I find with my level of expertise, once I have that conversation with them, they're like, "Hey, it's worth giving a try." If they're not, then that's when I'm going to say, "Hey, your client doesn't want to invest the money, I'm going to do your first case for you at no charge. Just so you can see how stinking valuable this is to you."

Mighty Mike: That is amazing. That is awesome stuff. I mean, just when you were saying about sitting next to him in church, I couldn't help but think, like, listen. If I can find where you go to church, I can find where the guy that's defrauding you is going to church.

Joseph: And it's interesting, and I've done a little bit of that before. And I'll tell you, it's a fine line to walk, right? You don't want your clients to be too freaked out with what you're doing, but there's certainly an element of being able to ... You know, the proof is in the pudding, as they say, and if you can show them that you've got the knowledge, you've got the expertise, and you're ready to make it happen, they're going to jump on board.

Mighty Mike: That's good stuff, Joseph. You have really been rocking it here today. So, what is your parting piece of advice for Server Nation?

Joseph: You know, so there's a couple of pieces. First again is, know your value. I can't rely on that too much, because we see, often, and we don't really consider them competitors because they're working with a different client-base. But we see these people who they just ... You know, there was a company local to us that they just went out of business. We ended up hiring on most of their staff to help us, but they were a company that, they went out of business because they didn't know their value. Right? So they were charging way less than they should have been for so many years, that it just buried them.

Joseph: And the other piece is they weren't elevating the profession, because everything was so low they couldn't afford to give a good level of service. So, that breaks my heart when I see it, right? Because, hey, there's enough work for everybody. But there's no reason to put in the kind of work that you do, and deal with the kind of stress you do, and have a hard time paying your bills. Right?

Joseph: You know, we're working on cases where we're bringing immense value to the people with a lot of money, and if you can bring that value, they're happy to pay the good money. And if they're not willing to pay you what you're worth, find somebody who will. That's a huge part of the advice that I would give. Especially, you know, new and upcoming process servers.

Joseph: For investigators, and for process servers as well, the other piece is, know what you're an expert at and focus on that. And if you're not expert at something, don't try and pretend like you are. You've got to be transparent with your clients. And some of your clients, they like you so much that they're going to bring you on to do their stuff that you're not expert on, because they want to deal with you. And that's totally fine, you know? That's how we've grown out, branched out to do so many different things, because we build these relationships with clients.

Joseph: And they'll be, like, "Hey, can you come help us with jury selection?" You know, I'll tell them. I'll say, "Listen. We're experts at social media. We can run social media for you all day long. We don't, you know, we've never done jury selection before, but I can figure out how to do it." And I'll say, "Yeah, let's do it."

Joseph: And so, like that, a new portion of our business has grown. But you don't want to be the guy who they ask to do something, and you're like, "Oh, yeah. We've got that handled." You go out and you botch it, and then you look like an idiot.
Mighty Mike: And then you lose all their business.

Joseph: Right. And it's just a problem, right? That's not a good way to do business.

Mighty Mike: That's good. So, know your value. And what was the second one?

Joseph: So, know your value and know what you're expert at. And don't bill yourself as an expert at something that you really don't know what you're doing.

Mighty Mike: That's awesome. Joseph, that is so cool. That is so awesome. I love everything that you're throwing at us here today. What is the best way that we can connect with you, and then we'll say goodbye.

Joseph: LinkedIn is the best way to connect with me. Just search, "Joseph Jones, Private Investigator, Social Media Expert." You'll be able to find me. Connect with me on there. We can stay in touch.
Mighty Mike: And you can also find Joseph's Show Notes page as www.processserverdaily.com/joseph

Mighty Mike: Joseph, I want to personally thank you for coming on this show. I've been impressed with your story, and I'm excited to share it with the world. Until next time, Server Nation, you've been served up some awesomeness by Joseph the cyber-ninja and Mighty Mike, the podcast server.

Mighty Mike: Server Nation, I hope you've enjoyed that episode. Please visit our website at processserverdaily.com/servemanager and get your 60-day free trial of Serve Manager, the greatest software program for process servers.
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